Curse

Zexion · Jun 02, 2007, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Allow us to sell/buy Passage Scrolls through them. Perhaps even tomes!

_Zexion

VinnyRidira · Jun 02, 2007, 08:07 PM // 20:07

I agree - but the title hunters wont.

McMullen · Jun 02, 2007, 09:08 PM // 21:08

The scroll traders prices are affected by supply and demand like rune traders and dye traders, so i really can't understand what the title hunters would be complaining about if tomes were sold (also taking into consideration that you'll need to unlock the skill first anyway)

/signed anyway for passage scrolls.

savage vapor 33 · Jun 02, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

/signed for passage scrolls.
/notsigned for elite tomes.
/signed for non-elite tomes.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jun 02, 2007, 09:14 PM // 21:14

/signed completely, as long as it's subject to supply and demand, not fixed.

MagmaRed · Jun 02, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

/not signed

Passage Scrolls allow you to enter FoW and UW when your region does not have favor. If they allow you to buy Passage Scrolls, they should just open FoW and UW to all regardless of favor, and increase the entrance fee. Making people earn the Passage Scrolls by killing stuff in Hard Mode is a worthy requirement. Yes, you can buy them from other players, but that requires SOMEONE to find the Passage Scroll, and for you to find a seller.

Tomes I don't see much of an issue with, and they could be set at a standard 1k price. Make people decide if they should buy it from the trainer, or buy a scroll. Would only help those that don't have Skill Points to spend.

Elite Tomes, no. Even making it supply/demand based for availability and price, it makes the title seekers job too easy. PvP players who dabble in PvE could then easily get a title that would take considerable time and knowledge, with no time or knowledge needed. Plus, it allows for the level 10 and under scrubs to 'cheat' in the Ascalon, Shing Jea, and Istani Arenas. I know... they can still 'cheat' by buying them from another player, or getting it on another character and using Storage... but why make it easier.

Kale Ironfist · Jun 03, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

MagmaRed: Just to correct you, traders only sell what they've been sold. So there is no distinct difference if a player buys a Passage Scroll from a trader, and buying one from a player.

The difference is that one is a player to player trade, and the other involves a third party middleman. Generally, it's easier to facilitate trade through a third party.

Slim · Jun 03, 2007, 03:29 AM // 03:29

/signed on passage scrolls
being able to buy tomes at a trader would kinda defeat the purpose imo, well non elite ones atleast but styll the elite ones is questionable

Zexion · Jun 03, 2007, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Wow, suprisingly many seem to completely miss the point of a trader:
SUPPLY & DEMAND

Why all the talk of fixed prices?

Making them available at trader is the same as it is currently, minus the tedious "WTS/WTB" spamming and the pricechecks. Those are done automatically at a trader. The prices will, just as it is now, be adjusted according to whether or not the certain tome or scroll is desired.

And magmared, that attitude to elite tomes. "It makes it easier to do something that you can do anyways, so why give people an easier time, let them grind for it". I know ANet has not held completely true to it, but GW is still one of the less grind-heavy MMOs out there.
Why encourage having people waste time? Are you a sadist?

_Zexion

bilateralrope · Jun 03, 2007, 05:26 AM // 05:26

MagmaRed, I can see what your getting at for not wanting elite tomes on the trader. Though with having to first unlock with balth, then farm for gold to buy the tome, I'm not so sure they will be able to get the title any quicker.

Also have you considered the casual seller ?

How would they go about knowing what price to sell the tome for ?
Once they somehow figure out a good price, how much time will they spend standing around trying to sell it ?
Now why force them to do that if they don't like it and would prefer to be out playing guild wars ? (if they like it, the trader won't stop them)

/signed for all 3

Yawgmoth · Jun 03, 2007, 05:27 AM // 05:27

It makes a lot of sense.
All of those items are already buyable from people in towns, but often either selling a scroll or tome or buying one takes some time wasted on spamming WTS/WTB in overspammed towns.
Even worse than the time wasted is the inventory space they take. Most people don't remember it, but it was exactly the same with Runes, before the Rune trader npc got added. Since then i've never had to dedicate an inventory slot to keeping a rune i may want to use later.
20 kinds of tomes equals 20 needed slots, huge lots of them drop in hardmode so they just keep coming. If a trader for tome existed it would mean clear inventory of them and more free time.

Same with mods and inscriptions... they need a trader npc even more.

/signed for all scrolls and all tomes

MagmaRed · Jun 03, 2007, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zexion

Wow, suprisingly many seem to completely miss the point of a trader:
SUPPLY & DEMAND

Why all the talk of fixed prices?

Making them available at trader is the same as it is currently, minus the tedious "WTS/WTB" spamming and the pricechecks. Those are done automatically at a trader. The prices will, just as it is now, be adjusted according to whether or not the certain tome or scroll is desired.

And magmared, that attitude to elite tomes. "It makes it easier to do something that you can do anyways, so why give people an easier time, let them grind for it". I know ANet has not held completely true to it, but GW is still one of the less grind-heavy MMOs out there.
Why encourage having people waste time? Are you a sadist?
_Zexion

You call it 'grinding' and 'wasting time'. I call it playing the game.

Rod Adams · Jun 03, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

/signed
/signed

bilateralrope · Jun 03, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

You call it 'grinding' and 'wasting time'. I call it playing the game.

So why force people to stand around doing something they don't enjoy when there is already fair solution to get around it ?

Also are you going to say how the current system is good for the current seller ? (see my previous post)

Zexion · Jun 03, 2007, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

You call it 'grinding' and 'wasting time'. I call it playing the game.

If standing around trading is what you consider playing the game, that's fine with me.
But GW has sold over 3 million copies. To be realistic, that's probably 1.5 million unique users, and perhaps 1 million is active.
So, how many % of those 1 million do you think has the same view on spamming WTS as you do?
2-3%?
That's 20000-30000. The rest of the 970000-980000 who play the game, what about those? Should they be forced to stand around trading, while they would rather be out killing things, just because a minority says so?

I can see your PoV, but you seem to miss ANets. They don't wanna sacrifice the happiness of 98% of their customers for the happiness of 2% of their customers.

_Zexion

MagmaRed · Jun 04, 2007, 02:15 AM // 02:15

If your concern is selling them, then I am all for having merchants buy them from people. I have every skill unlocked on my account. Every one of my characters has every skill for thier primary profession unlocked. Some of my characters have every skill for a secondary unlocked as well. Because of this, I have NO need for tomes. When I get tomes to drop, I use them though. Either I learn a skill I 'may' use down the road, or I have a character work at acquiring all the skills in the game. Worthwhile uses? Not really, but I don't want to waste my time selling them for meager amounts of gold. If I could sell them to a merchant, I would most likely. However, for people to acquire these items without playing Hard Mode, or buying them from someone who did, it unbalances the game.

Why should a PvP player with enough Balthazar Faction to unlock Verata's Sacrifice be able to buy that skill in Ascalon, instead of waiting until they can get to Copperhammer Mines. Why should players who have not earned skill points be able to acquire new skills? It isn't a HUGE imbalance to allow this, but I think the current method is fine. Tomes allow you to do more than you normally could. But getting a tome is not something you can do without a little time and effort.

I would actually prefer they updated the use of Tomes so that they can only be used by someone who has beaten the game. I don't even mean have Hard Mode unlocked. If you have 5 characters, and have beaten the game with only 1 character, all 5 can do Hard Mode. But I'd like to see ONLY the 1 character who beat the game be able to use Tomes.... and maybe, Lockpicks as well.

Yawgmoth · Jun 04, 2007, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

...

Why should a PvP player with enough Balthazar Faction to unlock Verata's Sacrifice be able to buy that skill in Ascalon, instead of waiting until they can get to Copperhammer Mines. ...

This was possible years ago and as simple as going to the Skill Trainer!
Got the skill unlocked? the Ascalon skill trainer has it too! (core and prophecies skills only, for others see skill trainers in their respective continents)

The real change tomes made is easy giving Elite Skills to new characters, which I think is a bit too much. For elite tomes there should be some restriction, like req level 20 or only Ascended characters.

MithranArkanere · Jun 05, 2007, 04:13 PM // 16:13

THey could be much more important...

All the scrolls (including lightbringer's)... all the tomes... plus some potions to mana ge a bit of DP (including that one acquired in the angish).

Orinn · Jun 06, 2007, 01:08 AM // 01:08

/signed for all.

Normal tomes really aren't unbalancing at all, since they're identical to going to any skill trainer for a campaign and just buying the skill.

Elite tomes I can see somewhat, but I think the market will keep prices on these fairly high anyway. The Elite Tomes are in the game, which means that the imbalances they could create already exist. Whether it's buying them on a high-level character and putting them in storage, or buying them directly from a trader, ANet has allowed elites to be learned very early in the game.

FoW/UW scrolls, probably would bring the prices on them way down. Not a bad thing, means more people can get in and play.

bilateralrope · Jun 06, 2007, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

If your concern is selling them, then I am all for having merchants buy them from people.

And how do you decide what price to set ?
What about when the market changes ?(eg ANET changes drop rate, or a large portion of players acquire all the skills they want for a particular class)

Too low and your not being fair to the people who hate trade spamming. To high and you destroy the market for them. And then there is the inflation caused if this merchant just takes them for deletion.

Traders however have a dynamically adjusted price, and because of the gap between their buy and sell prices, cause a net removal of gold (except for the items at minimum price).

Quote:

However, for people to acquire these items without playing Hard Mode, or buying them from someone who did, it unbalances the game.

The trader would still have the tomes being brought from players. Its just that the trader is a middleman to make the trade easier on both parties

Quote:

Why should a PvP player with enough Balthazar Faction to unlock Verata's Sacrifice be able to buy that skill in Ascalon, instead of waiting until they can get to Copperhammer Mines.

They could do this before tomes because the skill trainers show all skills for that continent that you have unlocked.

Quote:

Why should players who have not earned skill points be able to acquire new skills?

Why shouldn't they be allowed to acquire the skills ?

Quote:

It isn't a HUGE imbalance to allow this, but I think the current method is fine. Tomes allow you to do more than you normally could. But getting a tome is not something you can do without a little time and effort.

The time involved will be for farming the gold to buy the tomes.

Quote:

I would actually prefer they updated the use of Tomes so that they can only be used by someone who has beaten the game. I don't even mean have Hard Mode unlocked. If you have 5 characters, and have beaten the game with only 1 character, all 5 can do Hard Mode. But I'd like to see ONLY the 1 character who beat the game be able to use Tomes.... and maybe, Lockpicks as well.

Interesting idea, but its probably best discussed in a separate thread.